LISTEN NOW on Apple Podcasts
October 10th, 2022
We’ve all heard the story of the Mason who didn’t see his job as laying bricks; he was building a cathedral. Or the NASA janitor who wasn’t mopping floor; he was helping to send a man to the moon. Imagine what would happen if your employees felt this way about the work they do. Globally known expert, speaker and Bestselling author sits down with Rob and talks about the power of employee engagement and how this can transform your organization.
In this Pocket Sized Pep Talk, you’ll learn:
• Why employees may understand their jobs, but don’t necessarily understand what their companies do, and why.
• Transforming organizations from mediocre to remarkable… and a conversation to walk you through it.
• The power of having a “Revelation Conversation”— and the benefits of doing so.
• What are The Four Questions and why are they important?
• How do you connect an employee’s daily work activities to the organization’s purpose?
• How the approach advocated for in his book inspires greater employee engagement.
• A few lessons he would share with a younger version of himself.
To learn more about this guest:
Guest Phone: 303-325-1375
Guest Email: steve@stevecurtin.com
Guest Website: stevecurtin.com
Rob Jolles (00:00):
We’ve all heard the story about the Mason who didn’t see his job as laying bricks. He was building a cathedral, or the NASA janitor who wasn’t mopping floors. He was helping to send a man to the moon. Imagine what would happen if your employees felt this way about the work they do. Let’s have ourselves a pocket-sized pep talk because today’s guest is here to tell you just how to do that.
Intro (00:24):
A pocket size pep talk, the podcast that can help energize your business and your life with a quick inspiring message. Now, here’s your host, Rob Jolles.
Rob Jolles (00:38):
Today’s guest, Steve Curtin, is the author of the bestselling book, delight Your Customers, and is globally known as an expert and a speaker on customer service, management and leadership. Before launching his consulting company in 2007, Steve had a 20 year career with Marriott International. His new book is a Revelation Conversation, inspire Great Employee Engagement by Connecting to Purpose. His publisher is Barrett Kohler, my favorite publisher on the planet, and once I get a Barrett Kohler author in here, that’s a friend of mine, we’re glad to have you with us, Steve, and welcome to the show.
Steve Curtin (01:16):
Wow, thanks for the introduction, Rob. Pleasure to be here.
Rob Jolles (01:19):
Well, it’s a pleasure to have you here. So let’s dive right in and with you, I want to start with your journey to find the book. What’s the story behind getting to this book?
Steve Curtin (01:29):
Well, the story, and there is a story, in fact, I opened the book with it. So you hit the nail on the head, Rob. I was actually at a conference to talk about leadership and purpose was surfacing in 2016 as a buzzword. And so we were talking about this distinction between mission statements, vision statements, purpose statements, and we were getting at the heart of the business existentially, why does it exist? So I was talking with my client about purpose. They didn’t have a purpose statement at the time. They had a mission statement at the time, but it essentially encapsulated their purpose. So we didn’t get hung up on terms, but I asked him, I said, how many of the senior leaders who are attending this conference will be fluent in the organization’s One sentence, corporate mission statement? He told me most, I was a little more skeptical.
(02:25)
And so we had a sort of a naive activity at the very beginning of the presentation before I even started. Each member of the audience, there were 222 in attendance. They had an index card and I put up a PowerPoint slide that asked them to simply record the organization’s one sentence corporate mission statement. Just gave a minute to do it. I said, without the aid of a smartphone or the colleague seated next to you, we’ll collect those cards. And we did. I went out with my presentation, and then in the days afterwards, I laid those index cards out and I followed up with my client and he was absolutely chagrin to recognize when the final numbers were in that out of 222 senior leaders who were flown in from all over the country to an airport hotel in Chicago to attend a leadership meeting, only four of the 222, less than 2% could articulate the organization’s one sentence corporate mission statement. And so that was a real aha for me, Rob, that let me know right away. Although most sophisticated organizations create a mission or a vision or a purpose statement, the reality is a very small percentage of their company leaders can actually articulate that statement.
Rob Jolles (03:41):
Oh, that’s in, that’s interesting. And you know, fall into this classic category. People don’t believe me, but I’m telling you, you talk to most authors, and it’s not that a coconut falls out of the tree and hits us in the head, but we don’t go looking for the book. It kind of finds us. And there’s almost always a story behind it and it’s a classic. And for those who are thinking of writing a book, you just heard it a classic tale. And the tale is you don’t really have to force it. Just keep your eyes open, but listen to what’s around you because that book will find you. All right, let’s climb into the book. Alright, looking at over, you mentioned that employees don’t struggle necessarily with what their jobs entail, but you seem to focus on a different question, which is why they do what they do, or even why your business does what it does. And according to you, employees don’t do so well with this one. So tell me why.
Steve Curtin (04:42):
Yeah, well the reason that employees don’t do well with it is that their immediate supervisors don’t do well with it. And by don’t do well with it all I, all I’m suggesting is that they lack awareness. That’s why the first third of the book is under the heading reveal it. It’s really revealing or enlightening to employees to recognize that there’s another part of their job that transcends duties and tasks. So in other words, a job will consist of three parts, two parts they’re intimately familiar with as are their immediate supervisors. And that is the knowledge part and the skills part. In other words, most employees possess adequate job knowledge. They demonstrate sufficient job skills, and by extension they’re, excuse me, they’re competent to execute assigned job tasks. That’s not the issue. Competency in the workplace is largely not the issue. The issue is they’re disconnected from purpose because there’s a third part of every job role, which is job purpose, which is the single highest priority of that job role. And frankly, most employees are unaware it. And the reason for that is that their immediate supervisor is also unaware of it.
Rob Jolles (06:03):
Wow. It reminds me, I was working with Toyota when I first met them and was, it was a big deal for me. I was in the final two or three contractors that were looking to do the sales training for them, and they had people from Japan. It was a pretty high pressured room. And I remember at one point all I asked was, well I, we can sell it. Just tell me what you want the customer to want and we’ll start there. And I remember them looking at me going with very blank faces, and they actually asked me to leave the room. And I came back and they handed me a little sheet of paper and it basically outlined what they felt with sort of the fundamental principles of what they were trying to do. And I said, this is terrific. Who else has ever seen this?
(06:53)
And they stood, they looked around and they sort of shook their head no. And it became the building block for what we were doing. But I bring that story back to you, Steve, because it was shocking to me to deal with the caliber of people who were in that room and find out that no one really knew the answer to what that company was standing for. And as a sales guy, like I said, I can sell anything, but you got to tell me what I want the customer to want. They didn’t even know the answer. It is amazing. I don’t know how you.
Steve Curtin (07:32):
That’s not uncommon.
Rob Jolles (07:34):
Yeah. So, alright, so you write about something that they, having a revelation conversation, kind of an informal one-on-one exchange that connects your employees. Talk to me a little bit about that. That’s a new term to me and just kind of walk me through that.
Steve Curtin (07:50):
Yeah, it’s Revelation conversation. That’s chapter four. It’s really the cornerstone chapter of the book, but it’s chapter four. So in other words, we have three chapters that preceded the first chapter I refer to as the two journeys, which makes this distinction between an employee’s purpose in life, which is very private, very intimate, very existential, and their purpose at work, which is more intellectual. It’s a journey of self-improvement as opposed to the vertical journey of the journey, the horizontal journey of self-improvement is the journey that employees experience at work. And so we make that distinction in chapter one and chapter two, we talk about the totality of the job role, which was your previous question, that every job consists of two dimensions, job functions and job essence. Job functions, being knowing what to do and how to do it, job essence being the why behind the what and the how.
(08:50)
Knowing why you do what you do, how you do it, or the way you do it at work. And then chapter three is the four questions. And these are a set of questions that the reader will ask their exercises at the back of each chapter. Four questions that the reader will ask to crystallize their purpose at work, their values, the actions and behaviors that reflect those values and their team’s as highest aspirational goal at work. When you’ve gone through those three chapters, when you’ve answered and contemplated those four questions, you are now GED or prepared to initiate this revelation conversation, which is presented for the first time in chapter four of the book. And that’s simply to post this question to a direct report. Would you describe for me from your perspective, your job role, what your job entails? That’s the question. And then that initiates a conversation that reveals the totality of the job rule connects the job role to the highest purpose of the job role, which is the job purpose and inspires greater employee engagement.
Rob Jolles (10:05):
And how are employees doing? I mean, can they answer that question? What your job entails? I mean, do people know the answer to that?
Steve Curtin (10:12):
Oh, oh, yeah, yeah. Well versed Rob in the answer to that question. They can’t answer a lot of the other questions that follow up. But because you’ve been through chapters one, two, and three and you’ve contemplated the questions in chapter three, you’re prepared, you’re guarded for the conversation. You as the immediate supervisor, which is really the target audience of this book, you are prepared to respond to each of the questions they say, don’t ask a question you don’t have the answer to. In this case, that’s true. You are ill-equipped to initiate a revelation conversation. If you don’t know the highest priority of the job rule, if you don’t know the definition of job essence because Rob, the way the conversation goes, you initiate it with that initial question, which is, would you describe for me from your perspective, there are no wrong answers here.
(11:05)
So it’s a very approachable question. Would you describe for me from your perspective, your job role, what your job entails? And in response to your question, Rob, they know, and what they’ll do is they will list a litany of job functions, which are the duties and tasks associated with their job role. It’ll be a list essentially of the bullet points on their job description that outline their duties and tasks. And so you’ll listen to that patiently and thoughtfully and then you’ll say, listen, everything you’ve mentioned is important because it’s not zero sum, it’s not like job functions or job essence. You really need both. If your objective is to create a delighted customer, if your objective is to create an engaged employee, but they’re going to list a set of job functions, and then what you do is say, Hey, listen, that’s an important list, vital list, we need to do all that, but I didn’t hear anything about Job Essence. And then they’re going to say, what’s that? And you’re going to say, well, job Essence is your single highest priority at work. And then they’re going to say, cause I’ve had these conversations an awful lot. Then they’re going to say, what’s that? What’s my single highest priority at work? And if you’re not prepared to answer that question, you’re going to be stuck.
Rob Jolles (12:26):
Maybe that’s a good title for your next book called What’s that? You know how to, and then kind of spell it out below the book is called The Revelation Conversation, inspire Greater Employee Engagement by Connecting to Purpose and just came out May 22. So you’re just getting out there now, but I want to pay you a compliment, kind of ran through a stop sign. But something that impressed me that as you were describing the book, and I’m just a fan of, and that is the exercises. I like a book that’s interactive. I think sometimes it’s the trainer in me that says, I can deliver a workshop or a keynote and just talk to you. Or I can take some time and say, all right that that’s how we grip the club. Now let’s play a hole. Let’s swing and hit a couple of balls. And so the fact that you’re doing that to me gives it that interactive quality that’s powerful. And I applaud you. I don’t find a whole lot of books like that. And I always cue in when I hear that because I’m a fan of it. So I like hearing that. Congratulations.
Steve Curtin (13:35):
Thank you.
Rob Jolles (13:36):
You, let’s stay on that interactive part a little bit. You’ve got some questions at the end. Is there a way for them to track their particular business as they’re going through? In other words, one, and I will never mention a jealous title on a book because this is your time, but I liked, I’ve done it times where I’ve given them sort of some case studies or something to say, here, let’s pull something through. So it can be, or you can take a look at one of mine, but I want to pull something through here and build a story, not just tell you about it. That’s my approach. Tell me about your approach.
Steve Curtin (14:18):
Yeah. Well it’s similar in the sense that it’s instructive. It’s cumulative. Two builds on one, three builds on two, and so forth to the end of the book. And so I would say that there is a lot of, as a trainer myself and having an appreciation of adult learning principles, there’s a lot of relevancy to this, there’s a lot of applicability to this. When I say this, I’m talking about the book. And there are a lot of, there’s a concreteness to it. In other words, it bridges the gap between the amorphous, the theory and the abstraction and the real world of work that managers, supervisors, leaders, operators, encounter on a daily basis. That’s the feedback that I’ve received. And that was full intent.
Rob Jolles (15:14):
Okay. Well, to me, again, that the important part is, and it’s smiling. Cause I’m thinking, of course he’s a trainer because I think trainers, I don’t know about you as a writer, but for me, I’m almost having a conversation as I’m writing the book. My wife will walk by and see my eyebrows moving and my lips moving a little bit because that’s where I’m comfortable. I’m comfortable in the pit and I’m trying to tell that story. But I find that most trainers who write will write with an interactive edge, will be asking questions, will unconsciously, competently. I’d like to add kind of mimic as if we were in front of our client putting on this workshop. So can they interact at your website?
Steve Curtin (16:06):
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. Oh, do you want my website name?
Rob Jolles (16:12):
Well we’ll throw it in the end. I’ll put it on the site, but put it in right now cause I don’t know it. What’s that website? I forgot.
Steve Curtin (16:18):
Yeah. And it’s simply my name, Steve Curtin. And you spell that? C u r t i n.com.
Rob Jolles (16:23):
Okay. And so if I read that book, I could go to that website and obviously I can talk to you about workshops or consulting, but can I find other resources that will support what I’ve just read?
Steve Curtin (16:38):
Well, really the resources I would say are baked into the revelation conversation. You had mentioned it. I’m working with an instructional designer gentleman named Brian O’Neill, who I worked with on my first book to Delight your Customers to create a companion guide for internal company trainers to cascade the lessons from the book to a broader audience that’s in process now. We hope to complete that in q4.
Rob Jolles (17:05):
Got it. Good. Okay. Makes sense. Alright, so let’s stay with, let’s stay. Let’s stay with how you approach in your book, how you’re inspiring greater employee engagement. We all want that. Remember Al, although I’m 30 years in business for myself, I came from Xerox, that was kind of one of our themes. So I am A C E O, I’m a high level manager. I’m thinking about buying this book. What am I going to learn in that book to inspire that employee engagement?
Steve Curtin (17:41):
Well, it’s going to be very difficult for the employee to be engaged if their immediate supervisor is not engaged as Gallup has demonstrated again and again, there is a significant correlation between the quality of the manager and that’s his or her modeling, their communication, whether or not they’re connected to the organization’s purpose. There’s a significant correlation between where they are and where their staff is. Right? In fact, the latest statistic I read from Gallup is that they could predict with 70% certainty the alignment within the department based on getting to know the department head or department manager. And so there’s an awful lot of responsibility that the manager has. So really where the book is of benefit, frankly, is just to have them pause. Because many managers, as Stephen Covey said in his book, the Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, many managers just get caught up in the thick of thin things.
(18:49)
And what I mean by that is they get caught up in job functions, they get caught up in transactions, activities, efficiencies, and they subordinate oftentimes, unwittingly, they subordinate relationships, they subordinate results, they subordinate effectiveness to efficiency. And what this book does is it forces you to pause and say, what is the purpose of the organization? And for most readers, you know, referenced a c e O of a sophisticated organization, what, what’s he or she going to get out of it? Most managers and leaders who work for a sophisticated organization, whether it’s a smaller mid-size, larger enterprise business, a mission statement or a vision statement or a purpose statement, whatever that’s called that exists, they ordinarily have a set of core values that exists. Maybe it’s on the about page of the website, maybe it’s in the employee handbook, maybe it’s framed and mounted in the executive corridor, I don’t know.
(19:53)
But what needs to happen is that needs to come off the wall in the executive corridor. It needs to come off the coffee mug, it needs to come off about page of the website, and it needs to come into the real world of work for that supervisor, that manager, that leader. And then it’s incumbent upon him or her to reveal the total job role to their subordinates to connect their daily work activities to the higher purpose of the job role and organization. And in doing so to inspire greater employee engagement. And you can do that with this book.
Rob Jolles (20:27):
Excellent. Kicking up a hold of a bunch of thoughts of mine. When I was at Xerox, I worked and taught the leadership through quality program for Xerox. It was, I begged for them to let me teach that program cause I was a sales trainer. But I really always thought, well, we talk about problem solving as sales people, why wouldn’t I be learning how to problem solve and see how these correlate? But I learned a lot through that program. And as you were talking about the CEOs, and it starts at the top. I remember we were tracking Deming and Jo Duran. And Duran really always believed that all of these types of trainings, all these types of principles have to come from the top down, not the bottom up. But I’ll tell you a real fast, funny story in terms of process and sort of keeping it with us, that wasn’t a slogan.
(21:25)
Quality was Xerox, that we took it very seriously and we followed the lead. And the lead was David Kearns, that was the c e o at the time. And David Kearns always claimed to carry his laminated, it’s like a quality improvement, problem solving process. He said, I have it with me all the time, it’s always with me. So I worked at the training center in Leesburg and we’re on 2,400 acres, this massive training facility. And Kerns came in a few times. I saw him running one time and I stopped him and I said, got your card with you. And he had it with him. He was running with that laminated card and with a big smile. And it was a really a wonderful moment because I was just kind of teasing, like, of course you don’t, what do you have in your sock? Well, he added, it was running shorts.
(22:19)
He added a back pocket, but he walked the walk. And I will tell you that Xerox did walk the walk on this. And it’s another example. You’re listening to an author right now who’s not only talking to you about what he’s written, but how to make sure what he’s written actually is implemented within the organization. We trainers, Steve and I, we love to entertain, we love to inspire. We’re pretty good at motivating. But what makes us tick is when we meet with a company six months later, a year later, that’s has implemented what we’ve taught. And so that’s why I’m heavy up with the conversation here a little bit, because I love what you’ve got, but once you told me you were a trainer, I knew we could go towards implementation. And at the end of the day, that’s protecting your investment. That’s protecting, you don’t want to become, we don’t want this to be the flavor of the month.
(23:17)
It’s too good. And so you’re hearing various ideas, not only in the book, but just two trainers yapping about how to make sure what we’ve got sticks that that’s the home run for us. I know I’m putting words in your mouth a little bit, but folks, I’m looking at him and he’s nodding with me right now. Right? I’m mad. Okay. Alright. Let’s say, let’s drop back a little bit. Let’s say that you, you’re going back in time and you get to talk to a young Steve and tell me one or two regarding this particular topic. Because I know if I talked to a 25 year old Rob, I have a lot to tell him, but I want to talk about this particular piece. What would you tell a young Steve curtin if you had the opportunity?
Steve Curtin (24:07):
Well, I would, and I think you’ve, you’ve biased my response by listening to your previous remarks where you were talking about, you didn’t use the word operationalize or systematize or inculcate, but that’s what you’re talking about. Essentially, how can we incorporate the lessons that are being taught in a learning environment, in a training session? How can we embed those in the day-to-day operations of the business in order to create sustainment, which is key. And I think when I was younger, it was less about sustainment and more about sort of delivering against the course objectives. And then we would have the course objectives on the evaluation at the end of the course, whether that was an afternoon or a four day course or whatever it happened to be. We would have the objectives and we would ask, we’d have them rate on a liker scale whether or not they felt from their perspective that objective was met and it would offer us a rating.
(25:16)
And that’s basically how we would evaluate the effectiveness of the course materials, of our presentation, of the activities, et cetera. I think today, I’m biased to your point. I’m biased about whether or not training has to be applicable. It has to be relevant, but it also has to be sustainable. Other words, it falls into that flavor of the month category and enthusiasm for it wanes over time and then something else takes over. And what usually takes over is our job functions. And that’s the sort of the myopic focus on executing job assignments, budgets, forecasts, utilization, metrics, productivity, the p and l, all of that. And when that happens, the focus leaves job essence, which is your single highest priority at work, as we’ve talked about this job purpose. So that’s what I would tell myself. I would say, Hey Steve, it’s great to get good feedback on your course evaluations, but let’s also look at how are we going to embed this so that it is not usurped by another program six months from now. How, if we truly believe in it, how can we embed it so that it happens consistently, reliably over time by design?
Rob Jolles (26:41):
And we use different words, but I will pound on the word process. I like things that are repeatable and predictable. And now we can’t do that. We can’t throw a blanket over everything. But when you have a process, you have a way of measuring what you’re doing. When you can measure it, you can fix it. So when you’re listening to an author like Steve, obviously the concepts of his book are engaging, they make sense, but he’s process related. He’s pulling through a way of interacting. And he is, that’s why in my world, I’d be buying books from trainers because when you’re, you want to learn something, teach it, you are in the pit, you learn it and you learn it from all sorts of different angles. But I can tell that you’re, and looking over your materials, very process oriented. And only one other thing, and I’ll move off of this, but train or to trainer and listen up folks, this is important.
(27:36)
The word objectives, the reason why we often don’t meet our objectives are do we meet our objectives? What was our objective again, is this is just one person. I’m on my soapbox just for a second, but I’m on a crusade to remind people that that’s probably one of the most misused words in all of training. Because we think of an objective as something like at the end, you’re going to have a greater appreciation for sustain that. How do I test that out? Everybody? Raise your hand if you appreciate this more. An objective to me needs to be actionable. Measurable. At the end, you’ll be able to recite four of these. You’ll be able to implement two something so that even if we don’t meet our objective, I’ll still give you an A plus. At least we know the answer. Think about many of the programs that are people that you’ve been through, where you’ve heard objectives up front at the end. What if I did walk in and go, okay, thank you. Now raise your hand if you met the objective. Raise your hand if you can tell me what the objective even was. Slow down. When you’re working on materials like this, remember that the purpose, the big picture might be to have a greater appreciation of X, Y, Z. But the objective right now is to be able to understand the four questions that Steve is talking about and be able to, that I can measure.
(29:00)
But yeah, I’m just climbed off my soapbox, but I really think that it helps us out as trainers. And last thing won’t get me started, but one of the reasons why this has fumbled a lot in corporate American and corporate training is because the trainers frequently aren’t writing the curriculum. Curriculum developers are right. And now when you get entrepreneurs like Steven, me, we’ll write it, but when we get to big companies, there’s a department that’s doing that. They’ve never really been in the pit. It, it’s like sales and service. They’re not so thrilled with us. We’re not so thrilled with them. We have to kind of manage, but I’m just telling you the why as to why that’s fumbled. But anyway, all right. Sorry to, we now return to our guest. Steve and Rob will calm down, but that word objectives does kind of get to me. All right, man. Last, maybe last question. We’ll see. Wait, tell me about some mentors, maybe it was Coe, you quoted him, but do you have a mentor or two that kind of led you on your way here?
Steve Curtin (30:01):
Well, I have a lot of respect for Stephen Covey. I actually met Stephen Covey in New York City many years ago. Just a chance encounter in a hotel lobby. But yeah, I would say that I was highly influenced by his work. I was influenced by the work of Edwards Deming, who you referenced earlier. He has a student named Brian Joyner who wrote a book called Fourth Generation Management, which was process management. I know you’re a big fan of process. I really bought into that student of that, and that’s really shaped me. But in terms of mentors, I’d really have to say I had a 20 year career, enjoyed a 20 year career with Marriott. And I had one boss in particular, a general manager by the name of Mark Conlan, who just was so credible, you know, told the story about the Xerox chairman who was running with the laminated card. He’s committed in the same way Mark exuded that credibility. And there can be cynicism in corporate America that your boss has an ulterior motive or you’re just a pawn as a subordinate. But that just wasn’t the case. In fact, that wasn’t the case with any supervisor that I had at Marriott while I was there. But Mark was just very credible, and I think he just really brought out the best in me and brought out the best in others. And I felt that my performance sort of elevated to match his performance. And I think in the absence of his example, that wouldn’t have been possible. I would not have enjoyed the same results.
Rob Jolles (31:57):
Right. It’s funny, I talk about Xerox a lot because that they really kind of shaped me at an age where I was being shaped. I have a great deal of respect for Marriott as a road warrior. I can tell you. How about, because you’re a Marriott. I’ll give you a 22nd Marriott story. Wrote a book about, called, wrote a book about travel. You won’t need the title, but I mentioned Marriott because I really appreciated their process maneuvers and behaviors, et cetera. And this is the kindness of Marriott. Marriott read the book, sent somebody to a book launch. I had no idea that they were going to be there. And presented me with one year of platinum, of platinum benefits for mentioning them in a kind way. But I had no idea they were going to be there. I just spoke from my gut and there’s a lot of hotel chains out there.
(32:52)
I appreciate the consistency. I know what I’m getting with Marriott and I in business. Boy, when you can accomplish that, you’ve accomplished a lot already. No guesswork. There’s no fear. So it doesn’t surprise me that you working for them for 20 years or so. I think you mentioned 20 years. Yes. Yeah. Had a big impact on the way you moved forward. An entrepreneur, great organization, great company. And no, I’m not hawking for another Planet Card. One year was fine, thank you. But anyway, a great, great, great company. Okay, well, I’ve enjoyed the heck out of this. Nice. It’s fun learning a lot. How did people get ahold of you?
Steve Curtin (33:39):
Well, they can reach me at my website, which is, as I mentioned earlier, Stevecurtin.com and that’s c u r t i n.com, and then in all the usual social places by name.
Rob Jolles (33:51):
Got it. And I’ll put those social, all those social places up by name on our landing page for the podcast. So if you’re driving in the car just ahead to the landing page, we’ll have it there for you. The revelation conversation inspire greater employee engagement by connecting to purpose. I’m assuming that’s available. Well, if you’re with bk, I’m assuming that’s available pretty much everywhere. Yep, everywhere. Good, good. Any foreign sales yet?
Steve Curtin (34:20):
Yes. I don’t have numbers, but I know we have foreign sales and we had, my first book was translated into Mandarin, and there’s a discussion about translating this as well. And the European group get abstract, has licensed the material for an abstract to add to their subscription libraries. So some good things happening internationally.
Rob Jolles (34:44):
Good, congratulations. How about an audio book? Is it in audio?
Steve Curtin (34:47):
It is an audio.
Rob Jolles (34:48):
Excellent. Okay. So you have that. If you’re not a big reader, you can get it on an audio. And if you are a reader, you’re going to go to Amazon or wherever, and you’re not just going to buy the book, you’re going to post a review on that book because that’s what we authors really appreciate. Be, and you’re going to post a review cause you’re going to love the book. So get that book. You’ve got, you’ve got, this author is hitting on both barrels. He wrote himself a good book and he got a trainer writing it. So you’ve got some attention to implementation. It all sounds great. I really appreciate you being on the show, and I just, thanks for taking your time out of your day and talking with us. I’m grateful.
Steve Curtin (35:25):
Okay. Thank you, Rob. I appreciate you sharing your megaphone.
Rob Jolles (35:29):
You bet. Well, we’ll do it again as well as we can next time. Everyone. Until then, stay safe.
Outro (35:38):
Thanks so much for listening. If you enjoyed today’s show, please rate and recommend it on iTunes, outcasts, wherever you get your podcast. You can also get more information on this show and rob@jolles.com.