Anybody who listens to Pocket Sized Pep Talks knows there’s nothing I enjoy more than talking about selling, and sales training. That’s because, when it’s done correctly, it can impact careers, and cultures. The creator of Warrior Selling® Jason Forrest sits down with Rob and speaks his truth about selling, and sales training. If you want to hear two salesmen and sales trainers mix it up, this episode is for you!
Originally Published: August 1, 2022
Episode Notes
In this Pocket Sized Pep Talk, you’ll learn:
- Why sales techniques widely taught at conferences and seminars are “installing mental limitations in others, not removing them.”
- What should and should not be taught in sales training.
- Thoughts on teaching the language of persuasion.
- A conversation about the need to ignite the pride, purpose, and respect to professional selling.
- Some of the biggest mistakes sales people make.
Rob Jolles (00:00):
Anybody who listens to this podcast knows there’s nothing I enjoy more than talking about selling and sales training. When it’s done correctly, careers change, cultures change, and incomes change. Let’s have ourselves a pocket-sized pep talk because today’s guest knows a thing or two about selling and sales training and he’s here to speak his truth. Oh, and I can assure you we’re going to have some fun,
Intro (00:26):
A pocket size pep talk, the podcast that can help energize your business and your life with a quick inspiring message. Now, here’s your host, Rob Jolles.
Jason Forest (00:39):
Jason Forest is the creator of Warrior Selling and leadership sales coaching programs ranked in the top two of the world’s top sales development programs by global gurus. And unless he’s underselling himself, that means he’s number two. I know he’ll work hard to get number one. He’s known for his provocative style of speaking, his truth and his transformative, one-of-a-kind training programs have rightfully earned him his spot in the top five of the world’s top 30 sales professionals for 2021. Alongside one of my favorites, Brian Tracy and more glad to have you with us. Welcome to the show, Jason.
Jason Forest (01:17):
Awesome, Rob. Glad to be here. Let’s make it rain. Let’s have some fun.
Rob Jolles (01:21):
Let’s mix it up. I feel like I’m interviewing me with hair. This guy came on, I’m like, Ooh, there I am. But fully Croft, as we say, I want you to know something. I rarely go after guests. I’ve got a handful of publicists to help me out with that. But one publicist, I don’t know if you know the backstory on you. For me, one of the publicists was pitching somebody to me and the guy was interviewing you. And I said, politely, I don’t know about the guy that was interviewing, but I want that guy. Cause I really like your style. I find your energy refreshing. It doesn’t surprise me because if you’re going to make a living in front of salespeople, you better be bringing it. But that’s how you got on this show. So you never know when you’re being interviewed, who’s looking at you. Did a great job, by the way.
Jason Forest (02:10):
That’s great. That’s awesome. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. And we actually do, we actually make a lot of money. We get a lot of leads from for being on these podcasts. And so it’s been a good mutual beneficial experience.
Rob Jolles (02:23):
Good. Well, it’s called, let me make sure I get this right. It’s called Warrior Selling and Leadership Sales Coaching. He’s got some other programs because I’ve been on his website. So let’s see how Jason does, and if he passes the test, give him a holler and we’ll put his information on at the end of this. Let me dig into some questions because I’ve really been, I don’t get to talk to a whole lot of mes, I don’t get a lot to talk to a whole lot of successful salespeople, successful sales trainers, writers, et cetera. So let’s get at the sales techniques. You say, and I was doing some research on you, you say that you believe sales techniques widely taught at conferences, seminars are installing, and I’m quoting, installing mental limitations in others not removing them. So talk me through that. What do you mean by that?
Jason Forest (03:11):
Sure. Okay. So all human beings are, we’re all just a bunch of almost like computers. So we’re all running programs and a lot of those programs sometimes are outdated. So if you think of the metaphor of a human as also a computer, meaning that if your computer is not producing what you want it to do, then what do you do? You throw it away and you get a new computer or you change the hard drive out and you put new programs, new software, and you update things. Okay? To me, that’s a good metaphor for how our brain works in the sense that a lot of us, again, are just kind of running outdated programs. So let’s just say for example, that you just, not you, but person’s a salesperson and they grew up in a family that selling was a plan B career for them, not a plan A, that they failed out in school or maybe they didn’t get the job they wanted to get.
(04:05)
And so because of that, this kind of leftover job that they now have is sales. So there’s already going to be a little bit of resistance around that actually called role rejection. And we know that people have role rejection when we say, Hey, so tell me what you do for living. And they go, I’m a realtor, or I’m a financial advisor. No, you’re a sales guy, you’re a sales professional. That’s what you do. But there’s already a little bit of that denial that’s going on. And so it’s that denial that creates resistance. Well, so fast forward. Now that sales person that is in denial one of the ways that we know that they’re probably going to sell is they’re going to sell by constantly asking for permission. It’s almost like they’re apologetic in their sales style. I apologize for mentioning this. Or do you have time?
(04:54)
Do you have five more minutes so I can take time from blank? They’re always kind of almost begging or needing something, right? Well then what happens is they feel safe doing that and maybe they might even get lucky doing that. That doesn’t mean they’re actually good at what they do. They just might get lucky. And luck is different than fortune. So luck is, you know, just happen to be in the right territory, the right economy. So for example, if you had some realtor that was selling houses in the last 12 months, they could literally tell themselves a story that their God’s gift to selling houses. They never convinced a single human being to buy a house. That house had four offers on it. Every time there was no selling, they got lucky, right? Fortune. Fortune is you use your mindset and your skills and your resources to the right opportunity and you advance things forward.
(05:43)
That’s fortune versus lot. But again, that sales personnel got lucky. So they told themselves a story that they’re a great salesperson doing their very ineffective sales process and sales strategies. So then what do they do? They go, you know what? Let’s let me be an author. Lemme be a trainer, because those who can’t do teach and those who can’t teach write books and so forth. And so now lemme go do that stuff. And now what do they do? They become a bestselling author. Well Jason, why are they bestselling if their stuff is ineffective? Because it’s sounds good. It sound, the general population wants to hear things that make them feel good. And so if someone can listen to something that says, Hey, you know what? The best way to sell something is first make a friend. If you get people to like you and you’re, and you’re making a friend, you’re making friends, then of course they’re going to buy stuff from you. Well, that sounds good. It feels good. It doesn’t feel intimidating. And so therefore it’s a bestselling book. Well, why not? Because everyone wants to hear that stuff. The majority of people want to hear that. But that’s not what the top 10% does.
Rob Jolles (06:51):
Yeah, let me jump in. We really unpacked a lot of stuff there. You do come out shot light at the cannon. Couple things I’m with you on most of this. I wrote an article one time about basically saying if it rhymes or it spells some funky word, I’m not interested in it as sales training, the wizard method. Don’t make it rhyme for me. I don’t need any of that nonsense. Make it work for me. But going back, you are right forever. People have almost been apologizing about sales. And I’ll tell you one company that I took on, and they happened to be, I happened to be a client I’m sure you’re familiar with Capital One’s bank banking, they reimagine it. But the first commercial they came out with, Jason and I wrote a piece, got some nice play, and I never saw the commercial again.
(07:39)
So I’ve convinced myself that was me that did it. But they had a tagline in there. Now this is a bank, remember? So these guys, we want ’em to get it right. And the tagline is, we’re here to help you, not sell you. And I was personally offended by that. I hope you are too. Because now we have a bank saying they’re making smoothies, they’re selling donuts. I thought you were trying to help us problem stuff. I thought you were there to help me. Questions, I’ve not been asking myself. I saw a book of yours. I hope you were helping me to create some urgency around this problem that I have. Smoothies are fine. I can get those at the seven 11, but help you not sell you. That tells me a bank thinks that when we sell, we’re doing something improper with the client. Does that offend you as much as it offends me?
Jason Forest (08:31):
Yeah, of course it does. I mean, in March of 2020 I wrote a book called How to Sell Through the Coronavirus, and I wrote it in two weeks on Kindles. Got it out there very quickly. And I did it because all over LinkedIn, everyone was saying that same thing. They were saying, Hey, right now let’s all be Kumbaya and let’s focus on our neighbors. And so let’s shut down our businesses and let’s stop selling and let’s start helping. That was a big meme all over LinkedIn. And so I immediately just went nuts on people and did the complete opposite. I go, that is insane. What you are presupposing right now, or your word installing, you’re presupposing, is that if I sell you something, I’m not helping you. Why are we presupposing that the greatest salesperson does help? And I use, the example I used in that time was that 90% of our clients that were in our full-fledged private program, 12 months leading up to March of 2020 coronavirus for the next three months, they met or exceeded their sales goals. That’s insane. So I am 100% helping people because think about all of those companies that had to get on government assistance and immediately had and were laying employees off and left. Our employees did not lay anyone off our sorry clients. Our clients not laying anyone off because they were selling more, they were performing more, they were performing greater. And so if you could sell more, then you don’t need government assistance. You don’t need those handouts. You can, you’re self sustained as an organization.
Rob Jolles (10:04):
I agree with you. And quite frankly, I’ve saw a lot of small little businesses, including my wife who’s an artist who actually re-engineered her art, her art world, her art business to do more virtual teaching, et cetera, and has never been as prolific as she is right now. But I know a lot of artists have said, well, you can’t go to a gallery. I guess we’re out of business and you just have to reimagine it. Let’s stay on this for a minute. Let’s do two sales trainers talking, but I’m going to hold you to give me like 90 seconds because you could go, I can go for an hour on this. So, but my question is this. Let’s break it down one side and the other. What should be taught in sales training, because there’s a lot of weird programs out there, but give me your best 90 and then we’re going to talk about what should not be taught. All right? But tell me, in 90 seconds or so, I’ll give you a little slack. What do you think should be in there?
Jason Forest (11:04):
I’m, I’m just a big fan of assertive style teaching. So we have a 12 step process. First we get position of strength. Second step is we discovery 360, we understand the customer’s needs. Obviously number three is we summarize them number four as we categorize them to figure out where they are in the buying process. Number five, we set the agenda. Number six, we create a veto selling message, A veto their current paradigm. Next step is that we, number step seven, as we compare call comparison 360 compared to what we’re teaching what or what we’re selling to what other people are offering. Step eight is handling objections. Step nine is you categorize, you category, close them and then step 10 is you give them to pick out a favorite and then the final decision, second final decision. Those are the our 12 steps of the process. But it’s a very assertive style, direct approach to selling.
Rob Jolles (11:54):
Right, okay. And bless your heart for doing that. I really didn’t need you to 90 seconds to go through 12 steps was a big ask. I like it conceptually. So I’m going to bounce it back to you. To me. And I’m a former Xerox guy. I don’t know if you know that. So no, that’s great. Yeah. I didn’t tie my shoe without a process, but I believe in repeatable, predictable processes. So when we talk back and forth folks, we’re not talking about make them feel happy and then make them No, no. There’s a repeatable, predictable process for most of those 12 moves you just heard to me, I’m going to make it a little more global. I have to create trust. And that’s probably the toughest things to, toughest thing to process, by the way. But then I go at and again, loved it when I went to your website, put a big smile on my face, got me excited because I don’t hear the word urgency enough.
(12:48)
Now, within those 12 steps, which you are hearing is, I can assure you there’s some take it from a nice to have to take it to a need to have. I believe in decision cycles, you called it something else. But basically understanding the other side, their perspective, where they are in that cycle, where their decision points are, and then close objection handling the other stuff. But quite frankly a lot of times, I’m assuming you too, we get pinned into an hour and they say, give me your good stuff. We don’t talk faster. We go at the critical stuff. And for me, it’s all about urgency. I just can’t get there without trust. So they’re packaged together. I don’t know if I got you 90, I might have gone over. But conceptually that’s what I see it needing to have. Where do you think we go wrong, Jason? Because how many times have you asked a group, how many have been sales trained? They throw their hands up in the air, they just had a bad meal. How many have you been sales trained? A dozen times. Most of the room’s got their hands up in the air. So we’re doing it a lot, but it’s not sticking. Why? What are we doing wrong?
Jason Forest (13:54):
I mean, the big thing would be we’re not focusing on removing the resistance. So we’re not removing the leashes. And so in my book, the Mindset of a sales warrior, I talked about this formula, performance equals knowledge minus leashes and knowledge of what we teach. But the leash is the resistance. There’s four types of resistance. Number one is a self image. So again, they don’t see themselves as a salesperson or they’ve got an image issue when it comes to a sense of worthiness in life, it’s not our circumstances to hold us back. It’s our identity that holds us back. So if they don’t identify, then it holds them back. The second is a story. So like you said earlier, we can’t sell via zoom or Microsoft teams. We have to be face-to-face. That would be a story. The third would be a reluctance. So they might have stage fried or selling to upmarket clientele, selling to friends and family as are reluctances.
(14:45)
And then last is a rule, and a rule is a rule of engagement in war. It’s fire until fire fired upon. But salespeople have those kind of unnecessary rules and they’ll say, you know what? I’m not going to present a proposal until I know three people on three levels of the organization. That’s ridiculous. These are rules that people have. So I would say the number one thing that’s not being taught, which is our area of mastery is spending more time on removing what stops people from doing what we’re teaching. That to me is the key to success.
Rob Jolles (15:17):
Yeah, I hear you. I’m bouncing it back to me. I don’t often have a podcast where I go, I want to talk, I want to talk. But we got two minds here. And it’s interesting to kind of compare notes. I see sometimes it’s not the process as much. I think it’s the implementation. I think that how many times have you done a workshop? Not a keynote, but you’re there for a half day, day, two days, and you’ve got management. If they’re in there sitting in the back row, observing and mumbling under their breath when the sales train’s over. Good. Now bring me my two apps for this week.
(15:57)
One thing I learned at Xerox was particularly through their quality trading, was the training comes from the top down, not the bottom up. And I think sometimes we can take, not that you and I deliver these, you could take almost an average program, but really focus on implementation. Make sure that their job aids, make sure that you teach those clients how to implement benchmarks. Let them let management practice giving feedback. They’re terribly at giving feedback typically because they’ve never been taught. It’s not balanced. They don’t really know what they’re looking for. It’s inconsistent to me, if we spend some time with management, get them in there in the trenches. And I mean, you see how clumsy this is when you regroup the golf club a little bit, you need to swing a couple at him in the bushes too. So you can earn that respect from that salesperson who’s looking at you going, and when you say, I know how difficult this was, I had trouble putting four words together, but here’s where we’re going. That builds credibility, not sitting there looking at your iPhone and catching up on messages. So to me, it’s on an implementation side. And are you with me?
Jason Forest (17:08):
Yeah. And yeah, I think we’re saying the same thing is my, the reason why we don’t implement is because of, again, that mental resistance, those leashes that prevent us from doing that. And so I a hundred percent agree with that. The other thing I would say from a technique perspective that I think is so good, important, which is probably what you’re also asking for, is I think the number one technique that salespeople don’t do enough of is they don’t ask questions about the competition. And that is, I know it’s why I want to bring it up cause it’s so controversial. But in our training, we’re one of the only trainers I know of. I don’t know if the others that do in our, as it relates to our process. But in our process the process is asking questions. Hey, so tell me specifically about the other options that you’re considering.
(17:58)
Who are the other alternatives you’re considering? And if you don’t go forward with us today, cause we haven’t even talked, we haven’t spent time together yet. But I’m just curious before us though, who, who’s your plan? Who’s your best so far? And then what makes them so great when they ask questions about that? And then I’m curious, what are they not offering so far that’s caused you to say, Hey, I’m still looking at fpg, right? I’m still looking at us. And so then they’ll tell you it’s, it’s almost like it, I call it legal cheating because I, I’m almost like my competitor now has done all the work for me. And I get to find out, well, who is the best competitor I have? But also what stops the customer from buying from my competitor? And then all I do at that point, this is what I teach is, well then all you’re doing at that point is you’re showing how you can offer everything your competitor has that they, plus how you do it differently, that is better for that customer than what the cus customer says they don’t like about your competition. If you do those things, then you get the sale.
Rob Jolles (19:07):
Excellent. Excellent, Jason. I like that. Let me ask, where do you typically place that line of questioning? How early or middle or late does that come in?
Jason Forest (19:16):
So I, it’s actually earlier the better. So I do it in the second step. So the second step is called the discovery 360. So it’s around three things we’re discovering. So we’re discovering what they’re currently doing, what they’re current situation, product, strategy, vendor, whatever, what they like about it, what they don’t like about it. So we’re asking questions around that, what’s good and what’s not good about it. And then number two is again, the alternative. So based before we start talking, who else does, here’s your alternative, what’s good and not good about them? And then the third area is what’s your ideal solution and what’s your ideal solution? What’s your ideal vision of what you’re really wanting and what are your concerns about executing that ideal vision?
Rob Jolles (20:02):
Right?
Jason Forest (20:04):
Because for example, you find out, let’s say you’re selling a house again, you might find out that they have an ideal vision, that kind of house they want, but then you ask, well, I’m curious then. Sounds like you really have an idea of what you’re looking for. What’s your biggest concern then? What’s your biggest worry? Well, we’re worried about the economy right now and the interest rates being so high, et cetera. Or let’s sell, let’s say you’re selling a heavy machinery, a big heavy machine like a Come Commod two machine or a Caterpillar machine. Well, you would ask that same question. I’m curious then sounds like you, you’re real clear on what you don’t like about your current machine, your Caterpillar machine, and you, you’re interested in the come out to machine, you’re also looking at Bobcat, but you don’t like the following things about Bobcat. And so you, you’re real clear on what you want as far as the machine, the technology. Then what would prevent you from that? Or what concerns do you have about taking action on that? And they’d go, well, again, it’s all about the probably the overall cost is probably the biggest thing. Or they might say what our company’s real used to using Caterpillar machines. And so we’re just kind of worried about the productivity loss of having to train everyone on a new set of machines. Okay, got it. I understand.
Rob Jolles (21:11):
Yeah, I mean, come on Jason. We all know that fear of change is a cloud that just hangs over pretty much any conversation. It’s folks, it’s when you listen to Jason talk, that’s a lot of the reasons why we’re asking those questions because you wouldn’t be there if everything was perfect. But what’s holding the client back? I, I work with Caterpillar, I don’t like it. Maybe I’m not attacking Caterpillar, but I don’t like the current product I have, but at least I know how to fix it and how to get around it. You could be better. What if you’re worse? So a lot of times we’re hunkering down just to gain information. Offer solution doesn’t really attack that. That’s why price comes up and let’s, let’s be more than Caterpillar today. You’re not going to move somebody off of something they already have that costs more because you’re just as good or changing would be nice.
(22:02)
We, that’s again where that word urgency comes in. And that comes in through drilling down we you’re hearing right now and earning the right to make a recommendation. Now the more Jason asked those questions and the more that client talks, the more Jason’s going to use the words and the language of that client while he’s making that recommendation quickly. When I did work for Xerox, I was at in Leesburg, second largest facility training facility in the world. We had product labs there with a lot of competitive equipment and a lot of the new hires would come in kind of laughing and look at that can and look at that Kodak. And I was always very offended because they said, Hey man, they wouldn’t be in here if they weren’t cleaning our clock right now. They do some things really well. Now they do some things not quite as well as we do.
(22:49)
We got to figure that out from the client’s perspective and our perspective. The only thing I’d add to what you said was for us at least when I’m creating that urgency about things that I want them to want that I happen to do, I also want them to want things that competitive product doesn’t do. And so the more well versed I am on that information, love it when it’s coming from the client when I can go, well, you know had said or you had mentioned, so I can use those words now I’ve got the full picture. What I really like about what you threw out there is I have actually, and I’m 40 years at this, I’ve never really processed those, that line of questions in and I like it. And that’s another reason why if you’re listening, check this guy. What’s that website, Jason? I want to make sure they get there.
Jason Forest (23:37):
Sure. It’s fp g.com. So for performance group fpg.com, connect with me on LinkedIn. And my last kind of argument I’ll make on the whole competition thing, because again, it’s a big leash. People have a big leash on it. You go, well, I’ve always been told just don’t talk about the competition. Maybe if you don’t bring the competition up, they don’t realize that there is a competition. I mean that’s all just very outdated programs. And so my belief system is, can you imagine if your favorite sports team, whatever your favorite sports team is, can you imagine if they just showed up all of a sudden at game time and they’re like, oh, we’re playing so-and-so today. How fun is that? And it was a surprise for them. Of course they wouldn’t do that. They have entire battle plans. They’re created around making sure they take advantage of the competition’s weaknesses. That’s what they do. And so as the ultimate sales warrior perhaps called warrior selling, that’s what I do. I’m all about finding out who my competition is. And then in the selling message, I’m going to take advantage of the weaknesses. I’m never going to insult the competition. So you don’t want to do that.
Rob Jolles (24:42):
That’s the old school, Jason. That’s why people will fight you on this because they immediately assume I’m asking so I can assault, insult them. I don’t need to. They’re a good company. We do things a little differently, but they’re a fine company and we don’t need to run from it. That’s the old school thinking though of you’re up to attack them. No, be clear. We’re not attacking them.
Jason Forest (25:04):
No. Yeah, and I’m with you on that too. Cause I think unfortunately do attack them, it actually does the opposite. So it gives them too much significance and meaning, it makes you feel, makes the customer feel like you’re intimidated by them. And so I do the same thing. I’m like, that’s a great choice. And people who choose them have certain outcomes and certain goals and people who choose us have other goals. And so what I’ll do today, Mr. Customer, is I’ll help you decide are you the ideal client for them or would you be an ideal client for us? And I’ll tell you, if you’re really a better fit for them, then I’ll tell you and you really should go with them. And I’ve done that a lot. I actually sell a lot for my competition based upon what their philosophies are and what they want to do.
(25:48)
And for example, in our company, we’re a recruiting company and a training company. So a lot of people, they call us because of our Google placement, we’re really high on Google when it comes to sales recruiting. But they don’t realize that our way of doing it is we recruit ’em and then we also train ’em in our program and are guarantee, we guarantee them that they’re going to be better than half the existing salespeople by month six. But the guarantee goes away if the client doesn’t follow our advice and our training. So there’s some standards around that. They got to do the training that memorized the script that do all this stuff. And so a lot of times the client will push back and go, I don’t want all that though. I just want you to find a recruit. I just want you to find a salesperson for ’em.
(26:31)
I just want you to recruit. And I go, that’s not who we are though. There’s plenty of sales recruiters out there that will find you some warm body and pray that they stick for you and pray they perform. But we put our name behind them and our goal is that our salespeople are better than half your existing salespeople so that we can sell you more sales training at the end of that. But if your people aren’t following, if you’re not making our placement, follow the sales training and we’re not in agreement of that, then it doesn’t work for us. I just tell ’em.
Rob Jolles (27:00):
Yeah, no, it’s smart. I’ve actually never heard that model before, but it certainly makes sense and you’re putting your money where your mouth is because you’re saying, I will guarantee it if you let us basically teach ’em how to play this sport. If you don’t, why would you guarantee anything? I can’t guarantee anything because Jason, you and I both know that for most companies, and we’re coming back to that point, about 12 people have been trained sales trained 12 times. No, you haven’t. You’ve been product trained 11 or 12 times. Somebody called it sales training. So you went out there, you regurgitated all the information you learned and you basically made the biggest mistake you can make in selling, which is you dump product on the table, you hammered them with features and benefits and you never earned the right to get near it. And you’re scratching your head going, I don’t get it.
(27:46)
I follow up the sales training. Last thing, I’ve got one more question for you, but I wanted to tag on a little bit. The fact is, when you were talking about the competition, you and I are in a very interesting industry on the sales training side because I’m always got my fingers crossed that if they have been sales trained, they were sales trained by a good company because if they weren’t, why would it makes my sale a lot harder. We tried it, nobody used it, it failed. We don’t want it. If they tried it and their numbers went up, we’re probably going to do real well. So in our particular industry, I’m always pulling, for whoever’s been there before me, I hope they did a decent job, it’ll make things a lot easier. And then I use the magic word enhance. I don’t think we need to keep chasing the flavor of the month.
(28:38)
What we need to do is figure out if they have a process that makes sense, how we can enhance it and kind of keep it in place that helps the credibility of the program. But let me slide to one last question, Jason, I could talk to you for four hours, I’m telling you right now. But last question for you, if you could go back and talk to a younger Jason, so we’re going back just starting in sales, what would you tell him? And again, I know you’re go for a while on this one, cherry pick it. Give me a couple things you’d whisper in his ear.
Jason Forest (29:10):
I would just say the sooner you can surrender and get your ego out of it and find the most successful person in the area that you want to be in, and you just model them and you copycat them, the faster you’ll be successful. So I did not do that enough early on. And I tried to do it, do it my own way and it, I spent way too many years in my early twenties trying to figure it out the hard knocks way. And my last thing I’ll say on this is you don’t need to do that. And if you actually look at how kids learn, so how kids learn nowadays is they’ll go watch a TikTok dance and they’ll copy the Tac dog dance, or they’ll look up a cheat code and they’ll watch a YouTube video and how to play a game correctly, right? Right. So kids have no problem with it, which is why we’re producing more. We’re producing American idols now than we’ve ever had before because they have these examples, these models they follow. Okay? Right. Well, as adults, we just need to do the same thing. We just need to drop our ego and say, look, I, let me just go learn how to do it the easy way, which is find someone else that’s better than you and then just kind of surrender yourself to them, to their mentorship.
Rob Jolles (30:30):
Outstanding. I would think what I’d whisper to myself is don’t forget the tune. And I don’t, that took me some decades, but I was so watching the process, following the process, internalizing it, but I never really focused on where I paused where my pitch changed. In other words, focusing on the way I was delivering the words. I don’t know often hear that in sales training including my own <laugh>. And I think that that’s an element that really needs examination. But when we’re up, you and I have made three or four straight sales, you don’t have to worry about my pitch, I’ll be fine. But I don’t care whether you’re who you are, Brian, Tracy. Sales is an up and down career. And when you’re down we run the risk if we’re not more cognizant of it, of losing our pitch and losing. And that’s the first piece that I think that’s our first tell in front of the customer. So I think, yeah, I could ask me that tomorrow. I’ll give you a different answer, but just listening to you and talking today, I think that’s where I’d land as well. All right. I told you we’d have some fun. Tell people again where do they get a hold of you.
Jason Forest (31:43):
Sure. So connect me on LinkedIn, of course, but also fpg.com, forest Performance Group.
Rob Jolles (31:50):
Fantastic. Well, you did a bang up job. I’m grateful to have you on and just thank you a wealth of information, Jason, truly.
Jason Forest (31:59):
Thanks, Rob.
Rob Jolles (32:00):
Well, we’ll do it again as well as we can next time, folks. Until then, stay safe.
Outro (32:10):
Thanks so much for listening. If you enjoyed today’s show, please rate and recommend it on iTunes, outcasts, wherever you get your podcast. You can also get more information on this show and rob@jolles.com.