We hear a lot about how unemployment is down, and employers are looking hard for good help. But that’s of little consolation to those who struggle with agism, racism, and a lack of confidence. Author and labor consultant Jason Greer sits down with Rob and talks about challenges in the labor market, and how to not just survive, but thrive in spite of these challenges.
Originally Published: November 7, 2022
Episode Notes
In this Pocket Sized Pep Talk, you’ll learn:
- Approaches to overcoming the inability to get hired for the jobs you are seeking.
- Some of the biggest personal obstacle that job seekers face.
- One of the biggest elephants in the room; how to explain gaps in a resume.
- The challenge of being interviewed for a people oriented, but being naturally shy and introverted.
- How to ask for help. That’s more challenging then it might seem.
- A conversation about the necessity to being your authentic self.
- The challenge of learning and displaying soft skills and its impact on success.
- Personal mentors of Jason’s.
For more information on this guest: https://hiregci.com
Rob Jolles (00:00):
We hear a lot about how unemployment is down and employers are looking hard for good help. Well, I’ve spent over a decade working on the front lines, helping people in career transition with so many who have and still struggle to find good and meaningful work. Let’s have ourselves in pockets sized pep talk because today’s guest comes from the front lines as well, knows plenty about the changes that have taken place in the labor market, and he’s here to help
Introduction (00:28):
A pocket-sized pep talk, the podcast that can help energize your business and your life with a quick inspiring message. Now, here’s your host, Rob Jolles.
Rob Jolles (00:43):
Today’s guest, Jason Greer, is the founder and president of Greer Consulting Inc. One of the top employee and labor relations consulting firms. He’s an international best-selling author of “Bias, racism in the Brain” and “People Matter Most.” He also hosts the Employee Whisperer Podcast. Glad to have you Willis, and welcome to the show, Jason.
Jason Greer (01:03):
Hey, thanks for having me, Rob. I’m looking forward to this conversation.
Rob Jolles (01:06):
Yeah, well I, I’m kind of one of my side hustles, but it’s a 12 year side hustle, so I really do want to carve into this and with you, I want to focus specifically on helping those that are in that transition that are just kind of stuck. I don’t necessarily want to section off by age, but I work with a lot of people coming out of college, and that’s one group, but there’s a more chronic group that I keep an eye on. So let’s start with this one. What do you think is the biggest obstacle that people themselves are putting in the way of all this?
Jason Greer (01:47):
First, it’s sort of getting out of your own way, right? Yeah, it’s, it’s so interesting to me that we live in this day and age with social media where it seems like where the social media, the internet, we have access to everything literally at the drop of a dime, snap of a finger. And just as a sidebar, because I was reading the other day where parents are having a hard time convincing kids, young kids that God is not Google. So they see their parents praying, but then they’re like, why are you praying to God where you just go to Google and find whatever you want? An aspect of that is that we have this idea of what the ideal job candidate looks like. We have this idea of what the ideal executive looks like or the admin, without recognizing that the idea of what the internet pres is presenting is not really the idea. It’s the dream, but it’s not the reality. So I think what I say to a lot of people as they are seeking to either make transitions into other industries or they’re seeking to get back into the industry or whatever the case might be, is get out of your own way first. You got to get out there and let the industry know, or let the job market know that you want a job and then have to basically put your best foot forward in terms of what you’re looking for.
Rob Jolles (03:02):
Yeah, I agree with you. I work with a lot of things in this Petri dish of this group that meets a couple hundred people every couple weeks. So really you get to learn what some of these issues are. But I do find that as we’re trying to get people to get others to believe them, they have to believe themselves. And it’s real hard to say, okay, do these four things, but oh, by the way, every I talk to you, you don’t seem like you believe you. And that’s a challenge, particularly when somebody has been, I mean, how many times have you heard this, Jason, I want the sixth interview and and then it was down to million three or whatever, and they didn’t get it to be that close. How can you not carry that with you to the next opportunity that presents itself?
Jason Greer (03:53):
Well, it’s difficult, but I want to level set here, because 20 years ago, if you went through six or 10 interviews, that was sort of standard. You might not get one interview, but you might get the job in the next interview. So there was a certain level of grit that’s developed, especially as you’re looking to get a new job today, what people generally say is, I went through three interviews and I haven’t gotten employed. I haven’t been employed. What’s wrong with me? Well, maybe there’s nothing wrong with you. Maybe it just wasn’t necessarily a good fit. And I’ve been around the block long enough to know that sometimes the fit that you think is going to be right for you actually in the long run wasn’t right for you as it pertains to this.
Rob Jolles (04:34):
And I always slide in and what was the network connection that you had going in? And sometimes, you know, hear crickets and you listen. There’s good news and bad news. The good news is, yes, these numbers better than me, but I hear it’s well north of 80% of jobs that people are getting are coming through some sort of network connection. I’m trying to figure the bad news. I guess the bad news is 80% of the jobs, if you’re not networking or coming through network connections, and I’m not reading a crystal ball, but I think a lot of times when I hear that sad story when I’m talking about eight interviews, for the same employer closer and closer and closer, and then no, and I’m wondering how, was it a network connection that was in that final three with you? And the employer’s not going to tell you, but I keep focusing back on networking.
Jason Greer (05:29):
Well, I think that’s the key is your network. What do they say your network is, your network worth, right? And what I generally tell people, especially if, and let’s just cut to the chase here, especially if you happen to be in potential employee over the age of 45 and you’re looking at either reentering the workforce, you’re looking at moving to another job, one of the things I’ll say to you is go about, you can, LinkedIn catches a lot of heat for multiple reasons, but one of the beautiful things about LinkedIn is that it is an awesome networking tool. You’d be amazed at the number of connections that you might have through LinkedIn and their connections might have further connections, might have further connections which you can tap into. Because what I often find is the advice that I give people who are looking to jump into the market is this, before you apply, just take step back and look at the landscape, who do within that organization or who do you know who knows somebody within that organization.
Jason Greer (06:32):
So if you’re looking at potentially applying for a job or making some type of move, go into LinkedIn and take a look at your contacts and then look at who those contacts are connected to within that organization. Because what I generally find is that people who are interviewing for multiple jobs, they get the interview, but they’re not getting the position. A lot of it has to do with the fact that they are answering cold. And when I say they’re answering cold, they’re not answering in terms of what they know the hiring manager’s looking for. They’re coming in assuming they know what the hiring manager’s looking for, which means they really don’t know the business beyond what’s on Google.
Rob Jolles (07:08):
And that kind of vanilla spec sheet is just well, I feel like somebody’s just sort of crossing their T’s and dotting their eyes, but that’s not really telling the full story. But I’m glad you’re pushing on LinkedIn, Jason, because truly I’m not a big Facebook guy. I wish I was a little bit more on Instagram. I can tell you the social media pieces that have just kind, but I take LinkedIn very seriously and game changer. And that is the garden that I tend, and particularly for people in career transition, listen to what Jason’s telling you because we’re talking about not getting stopped at that one yard line and at least having that network connection to help you cross that line. And LinkedIn will do it. And I’m a great case study. Please, please don’t everybody hit my LinkedIn, but when I get somebody who says, Hey, I noticed that you’re connected to Jason here, could you connect the two of us? I take that very seriously. And quite frankly on the other side, if I reach out to a Jason and he says, yeah, no, I’m not interested. I got plenty of people. I’m connected on LinkedIn. I sent a very nice email back going, well, okay, well then good luck to you. I’m going to actually delete you from my LinkedIn group because I thought that’s why you were there. I say it with a few more sentences, but basically out, I don’t want you disturb me disturbing the spirit of LinkedIn to me.
Jason Greer (08:40):
And I’ll tell you, look, I’m blue checkmark on Facebook. I’m blue checkmark on Twitter and soon to be on Instagram. It sounds great, but my true value is what I have put into LinkedIn because look, I’m a consultant, which means that I am, I’m looking for businesses that are in need of my services. And even though likes are great on Facebook and retweets are great on Twitter, for the most part, your value is on LinkedIn because that’s where the business is. That’s where the money is. Yeah.
Rob Jolles (09:12):
They call LinkedIn the new resume. If Somebody wants to look at you. That’s where they’re going.
Jason Greer (09:17):
Absolutely.
Rob Jolles (09:18):
All right, well let’s talk about some elephants in the room. You kind of brought one out. I wanted you to go first on when we were going to get to age. Yes. Cause I know that’s just a big issue. And I actually gave a presentation once called isms, and I talked about, I’ve said there’s a lot of isms. Racism. There’s ageism, there’s a ton of isms out there. Yeah, I see it. But the reality is, yeah, there is, but not everybody is hung up on an ism. And a lot of times it’s the candidate that’s really hung up on it. And so for me, hey, the bad news is it exists. Good news is it doesn’t exist everywhere. How hard are we going to use this to hold us back? So I guess one of the elephants in the room, and that’s an elephant in the room, one of the elephants in the room that kind of gets to me is the gap. Everybody. And frequently with an older candidate, particularly women that I work with, they’ve raised the family or they’ve done something where there’s that gap. Maybe they took care of an older mother or parent, sure. But there’s the gap. Help ’em out a little bit. What do you tell people who are sitting there looking at that resume and completely fixated on this gap on their resume.
Jason Greer (10:46):
It is the 21st century. And you can make anything look like a selling point. If you are, let’s say the example that you gave, if you spent two to three years raising your children, guess what? You are an expert at project management. And you can tie that tie what you did maybe prior to taking time out to obviously do very sacred work, which is taking care of your kids. You can tie the work that you did prior to with the work that you did raising your kids. And here’s another thing is that we are in the land of side hustles. Employers are 20 years ago, if an employer saw that you tried your own business for a year to two years, they might have said, well, this is a person that doesn’t know how to finish what they start
(11:30)
Today. They’re only expecting that the AV average tenure for someone who’s working in corporate America is two years before they move on to something else. So what I generally tell people is create a side hustle, even if it’s a L L C that you do maybe one to two hours in because you can transfer the skill sets that you are utilizing in terms of raising your children, running your home, doing whatever else. And you can transition that into what it looks like to be your own business. And then when you actually get into the interview,
(12:03)
Fake it till you make it. I am a big proponent of the I am the greatest right monologue, which Muhammad Ali utilized to make you believe that he was the greatest fighter to ever live. He made you believe that he was the greatest before he even stepped in the ring. Right? That’s the kind of attitude that you have to utilize when you go into an interview. Because if you go in thinking, I’m too old, I’m too black, I’m too bald, I’m too whatever, guess what’s going to show up on your face that I’m too, not ever what it is you’re looking for. But if you go in with the philosophy that I’m the greatest and I’m the trophy, and you have to earn the right to have me on your mantle, that will pay dividends because you never know that that hiring manager might actually have gone through the exact same thing that you went through two to three years before they came back into the job market. So you never know what those point, that point of commonality might be. Right. But you won’t know until you actually show up and do your job.
Rob Jolles (12:58):
Yeah. Well said. I wrote a piece once borrowing a biblical term, but it wasn’t a religious article for me that was called We All Walk with a Limp. And I really landed on that and reminded people that we all have our own limp. And in the end, I really believe that if you are in front of an employer who doesn’t understand you have a limp, there’s one or two things. Either they are not telling the truth or they have no ability to have compassion for another human being.
Jason Greer (13:36):
Exactly.
Rob Jolles (13:37):
But I think Jason, that frequently we carry that limp in and what’s concerning the employer is our concern with our limp. In other words, if they could reach out and actually insert words, they’re really basically saying, I’m not all that hung up on this. Yes, but you apparently are. And that’s concerning me right now.
Jason Greer (14:01):
I love having this conversation with you. Cause I have so much to say with you to what you just shared. I just read this wonderful article by Natasha Nicholson. She wrote this article in NA Talent Management, and she basically lays out the case as to why we need to start looking at socioeconomic class as it relates to diversity, equity, and inclusion. Because so often we talk about diversity and inclusion. We talk about race, we talk about gender and some of the other 10th poles, but we never talk about socioeconomic class. Here’s the reality. When you look at the research, more and more people who identify as being members of the lower socioeconomic class, they in some form or fashion have a higher rate of health issues and they tend to drop out of the working class before their time is up. When I say their time is up, I mean retirement. What they’re finding through the research though is you would never know that someone’s a part of a lower socioeconomic class until they actually tell you. But so many people lead with that because they war with this idea that I’m not good enough or I was just good enough to get this job as the janitor with without due respect to janitors, but I’ll never have what it takes to become the C E O. Right? Yeah.
(15:18)
But no one knows that unless you tell them
Rob Jolles (15:20):
<laugh>. Right, right.
Jason Greer (15:22):
But until you get out of the mindset that you are less than, you’re never going to be more than. Does that make sense?
Rob Jolles (15:29):
No. Does it make sense? I I think I’m not a big Twitter guy, but I’m assuming you’ve tweeted that. If not, that’s a home run. I think that needs to be captured and isolated. That’s a very valuable point you’ve made. Appreciate and yeah, no, I hear it all the time. I told you, I gave this presentation called isms. I wasn’t sure how the group was going to handle it, but I found an old Bob Newhart clip of him being a psychiatrist. $5, you pay upfront, he doesn’t make change and you won’t be in that seat five minutes. And somebody sitting there going, okay, <laugh> try it. And he says, what’s the problem? She says, I have this fear of being buried in a box every time I think I drive and I would think I might be buried in a box, I go into a building in a box, I ca a plane.
(16:17)
I keep thinking about building buried, being buried in a box. And he says, okay. He says, I got two words for you. She gets out of pan. He goes, no, no. I think you’ll remember these words. He says, lean in. She leans in, he goes, stop it. She goes, well, you heard me stop it. And life isn’t that easy. You and I both know that. But at the same time, I think where we’re centering on right now is let’s control what we can control. And again, if that other individual is got it that these hangups, thank goodness they’re not hiring us, this is never going to work. Right. But we have to stop getting in our own way a little bit and let’s play this out as not take our previous experiences and drag them with us. Because yeah, I do hear people even sitting with me saying, well, I’m kind of old. And I tell ’em right up the front when I was working our computer’s, like what are we getting in all those stories for? Can you run PowerPoint? Can you run Excel, Microsoft? That’s the answer to the question. We don’t need to hear all the other stuff. We should. Yeah. I’m going to keep yourself in a foot. Yeah,
Jason Greer (17:23):
Absolutely. I’m going to give you an example. My father is a retired, my father’s 84 years old, a retired assistant superintendent. Right? Smartest can be PhD in educational psychology, even at age 84 is sharper than 95% of the world. He’s an incredible dude. So when he retired, he found that after fishing for about six months, hanging out with his buddies, he did all the things that were on his bucket list and now he wanted to go back to work. So there was a opening for this principalship at this academy for young men, age grades one through six. I looked at my father and I said, dad, without the respect, you’re used to having six secretaries. You’re used to having everyone do everything for you. And the world’s a little bit different. How are you going to handle that when you get into your interview? He goes, can you hear my voice? I said, yes. He goes, can you see me? And I said, yes, I’m good. And I was like, what do you mean by that? He goes, they can’t take away my experience.
Rob Jolles (18:31):
Yeah.
Jason Greer (18:32):
He said, even if they say no, that’s no indictment of me, that’s an indictment of them. So when I show up, I’m going to let ’em know I don’t do computers, but I know to h how to hire someone who’ll do computers. I don’t do Excel, but I know someone who can do Excel. But what I know how to do is to run a school. What I know how to do is cultivate young men to make them men of exception. I know how to do that. And that’s exactly the attitude that my father took in that interview and understand. My father was one man. He was like 65 against these young principals who had gone, had all these degrees and everything, and my father just showed up and was authentically himself. Yeah. That’s what I say to people is you be authentically you because in this world of copycats, and if you want to know if it’s really a world of copycats, take a look at everybody’s Instagram these days. Right. And a world of copycats. Be you and do you, that’s going to be a selling point.
Rob Jolles (19:28):
Yeah. You know, hit on something that’s a passion of mine right now, and it’s something I’ve been writing about and that is authenticity. Yes, sir. And to me, it’s almost like a musical note. Some people, they can hear music. You hit a note, bing, they go, Bob, you hit it. Some people, you who can’t hear music. You hit a note, bing. They go, <laugh>. Okay. Authenticity is, in a sense, is similar. Some people are just gifted. Their voice pauses at the right place. Their pitch moves up at the right place, their pace slows down at the right place. But some people can’t hear that. And I know this is something that you write about, you talk about, I want to move to soft skills a little bit, but I will tell you coming in, I can’t stand the word soft skills. I call ’em performance skills.
Jason Greer (20:17):
Yes. I call ’em being human.
Rob Jolles (20:19):
Right. It demeans what they represent. They’re way too important to tag it with the word soft. Yes sir. Okay. There’s nothing soft about them.
Jason Greer (20:28):
Yes, sir.
Rob Jolles (20:29):
So let’s fix the world a little bit. You and me, listen, because I’m not so sure how many schools are offering performance skills programs. What do we do to fix this gap and help people in these performance skills?
Jason Greer (20:45):
Well, we need to identify that in order to become good at something, you have to do it. And there’s there, there’s power through repetition, right? So what I generally tell people is I’m amazed by the number of people who that I meet who are so verbose online. And then you meet ’em in person and they’re really withdrawn and really shy. And you find out how many introverts there are walking around an everyday society. But unfortunately they are then applying for jobs in which they have to be extroverts or they get promoted and they become leaders. And now of a sudden they went from just working in their cubicle doing their job, to now being in charge of 300 people and having to interact with those folks. So what I generally tell people is, if you want to develop your soft skills, start talking to people.
(21:34)
And I’m not just talking about to people on the job saying, when you’re walking down the street, open your mouth and ask people how they’re doing. Some people are going to say, well, I’m doing well. Some people are going to ignore you. Or in my case, I’m 6 3, 255 ish, depending on if I’ve had a Twinkie. So some people will walk across the street and that’s a subject for another podcast as to why they’re walking across the street. But the more you do that, the more you start interacting with people, the more you start fixing your brain around the idea, I can actually do this. You start to develop that direct eye contact. Your body language starts to open. You start to show other people that I’m interested in what you have to say, who you are, and I see you. What I’ll say in terms of positive skills, I’m not going to say soft skills, I’m going to say positive skills. Good is the more you do it, the better you’re going to be at it.
Rob Jolles (22:27):
Yeah. Well said. I do some coaching. I believe you do some coaching as well. Just because I’m a professional speaker doesn’t make me a great coach. One of the things that really helped me in climbing into this group of people in career transition is I began to coach them. And I refer to it as ring work like a boxer. I needed ring work. And that repetition you speak about helps. There’s two other words that I will often kind of whisper in people’s ears when they’re a little bit anxious. Also, don’t like the word nervous either, by the way, I got words, I just don’t like <laugh>, but anxious. Okay. With anxious. You could be anxious, you’re not really nervous. But I remind them, my two words are track record. What normally happens when you go into this lion’s dead because it’s rarely the first time.
(23:19)
Well, usually things work out and people kind of resonate the way, but you’re anxious right now. Well, because it’s so sometimes just as you say, I’m going to use the word ring work, just get some repetition. Just practice it like an athlete. Practice a little bit. But also remember that a lot of times we’ve been put in situations that are very uncomfortable where we don’t know the outcome. And yet when we hustle and try our best and show up with a really good attitude usually things work out for us. Let’s remind ourselves of that rather than this minute. Well, what happens if I know that’s there? What are the odds of that really happening? Yeah, pretty small. Let’s not misuse our imagination. Go with what normally happens. That’s what I’m whispering.
Jason Greer (24:11):
I love that. And it’s, what you’re really talking about is changing your mindset. So when I coach people, when I have conversations with people around this, we spend a lot of time working on your mindset. What is it you’re taking into the interview? What is it you’re taking into the interaction? Because understand that you think that other person’s judging you, and they might, but I hate to break it to you. The vast majority of people don’t really give a damn about you.
Rob Jolles (24:39):
Yeah.
Jason Greer (24:40):
They’re too busy settling on whatever’s going on in their lives. Especially when you consider how this society has become. Right. So all you can do is really show up again and be as authentic as you possibly can be. Yeah. Look, and if it’s a case of whether it’s you’re prepping for an interview, whether you’re prepping for whatever it might be, repetition, repetition, repetition, getting in that ring work that you just talked about, I’m a big fan of standing in front of the mirror, having a conversation with myself. It sounds crazy, but having a conversation with myself, especially if I’m going into a situation in which I know the person or the people that I’m going to speak to have a multitude of objections about the work that I’m about to do. Yeah. I will sit down and I will actually script out what I think their objections are going to be and then how I’m going to answer those objections. And then I’ll practice it. I’ll practice it. I’ll practice it to the point where by the time they bring that objection up, I’m already ready.
Rob Jolles (25:39):
Excellent. We’re talking to Jason Greer, who’s the author of “Bias Racism in the Brain.” Having a good talk here. Yeah. I happen to believe that we tend to get in our own way a little bit on these things, but let’s shift a little bit. Cause I, I want to get as much out of you as I can right now. And there’s another elephant, it’s not necessarily an elephant in the room, but I noticed it’s a clumsy move people make you and I both tapped on the brakes a little bit and said networking is going to be the key. But we’ve got, as you said, a lot of introverts out there. And my publisher, at least I’m getting ready to go to an author’s retreat. There’re going to be 60 authors there. I believe, and I’m not making this up. Three of us are extroverts, all introverts.
(26:26)
But, and this just by the way, I’m jumping around a little bit, but you know what introverts do really well. They ask questions and they listen. You know what the greatest thing you can do to warm somebody up and to actually persuade and get them to enjoy your company is ask questions and listen. So all you introverts out there, just understand if you go with something that’s much more natural for you than me, the extrovert, you are actually going to win the day. Now jealous jumps off a soapbox, but isn’t that kind of a weird irony that they possess a skill that we extrovert wish we possessed, which is for us to shut up and ask questions and listen, that’s what moves people.
Jason Greer (27:11):
It is.
Rob Jolles (27:12):
Okay, let’s jump back on. I’m glad I got that in. I had a crowbar that, but it was important. Let’s good. Let’s get back on networking. So it’s important we both agree it’s important to say, and yet we have to actually form the words to ask for help. Let you and I try, take a swipe at this, I got away, but I want to hear your way first. I’m in front of you. Maybe it’s in an email or maybe it’s a conversation that we’re having where somebody has set the two of us up somebody at X, Y, Z company and I’ve, we’re having a cup of coffee or something. But I’ve got to at some point ask you for your help. What does that sound like?
Jason Greer (27:51):
I need help. What? It sounds like I’m just being rude with you. I need help. But here’s the caveat behind that. Asking somebody for help is also putting yourself in a position and letting them know I will help you in any way that I can.
Rob Jolles (28:07):
Yeah.
Jason Greer (28:08):
Even if, let’s say hypothetically, if I’m asking you for help and you look at me and say, I wish I could, but the people that I knew in company A, B, C have since retired or they moved on, there’s nothing I can do for you. Yeah, that’s cool. How could I help you? And then sit back and listen just as you talked about,
Rob Jolles (28:27):
Right.
Jason Greer (28:28):
Because what you often find is people are pretty guarded about their networks, especially if they don’t really know you. So that person might have said, I can’t help you because the people that I’ve known that I knew have moved on to other organizations. Well, that might be a little white live because they still know somebody else within that organization, but they don’t know that they can trust you. Because if I make that referral, if I make that recommendation, let’s say you fizzle out, well then you basically burned a bridge with a relationship that I might have worked hard to cultivate over the years. So even if that person does not have something to offer you at that time, offer something to them. Because then when they see what your heart is and watch this, they understand the skillset that you bring to the table because they watch how you help them work out a situation. That’s when they’re willing to potentially open up the coffers for you.
Rob Jolles (29:20):
Excellent, excellent. All right. I’m, I’m going to throw one more piece on there. By the way, I have a, come on. I’m a former Xerox guy. Everything’s a process. I don’t tie my shoe without a process, but I promise I’m fun on the weekends. I really am. I, I’m, I’m not so process driven. I’m just watching my commanders get pounded, but I’m just hanging up. But
Jason Greer (29:37):
We can talk about them all day.
Rob Jolles (29:40):
Alright, but step one. I totally agree with you. We laughed at it, but I want to tell you something. That’s exactly what I would do. One, at some point you have to look them in the eye and say, I need your help. Yes. But step two for me is, and I love this piece, see what you think. I always say, I really respect what you’ve been able to do. If you were me Jason, how would you go about trying to get a position with Northrop Grumman or where, wherever this person’s working, I’m talking about a network connection where they’re on the inside and I’m looking for help. The cool part about, first of all, I really respect your opinion. It works with me. I can tell you that right now really immediately makes me focus and bond a little bit with you. And when you say, if I were me, what it does is two things.
(30:34)
First of all, I always hear, wow, you’re going to need to get talk to this guy or do that. But I’m telling you, I can set my watch on it. You count to three and with a pause and you’ll hear the next words are, I tell you what, send me, make the connect. All of a sudden we’re working together now. So I like that you know that I need your help. Now we’re focused. I respect you, your opinion. Now I’ve got your attention even more if you were me, that puts some teeth to it. And that’s the one that I kind of put forward to people who are trying to make that piece.
Jason Greer (31:07):
I love that.
Rob Jolles (31:10):
And the cool part is you try it when your next person that you’re could throw that out there, it’s here’s what you’re going to need to do thousand 1000 3003 and when, let’s just do this. I’ll reach out, send me that resume, I’ll copy you in, make the intro. Now we’re working together and that sure be, how do I get this conversation? How do I get this conversation started? Ha ha, hak. Because that’s tough. And then when you throw the introvert word on there, that’s even tougher. But if you don’t like that, folks find a process and like Jason said, then rehearse it a little bit so that it’s a little bit more comfortable so we can get at that authentic piece. Now we’re hitting on all cylinders.
Jason Greer (31:53):
Love it.
Rob Jolles (31:54):
All right. I could keep you all day and maybe we will do this again cause I think there’s plenty ele of elephants in the room. But with the customer, how about you personally? I’m just meeting you seem like a really interesting guy. Any mentors of that? And my dad was my mentor. I got a feeling your dad is fit the mentor column. So we’re going to move the dads aside for a second. <laugh> other than our dads.
Jason Greer (32:20):
Yeah. So great question. So I’m glad you said that. Cause I was going to say my dad is milestones that I was that kid that I go to my friend’s houses and they have those posters up of Emmett Smith and all these other players and I never had any posters up. Cause I had my dad, so he was my superstar. But I’ll say my biggest mentor, the biggest influence of my life has been Brenda Bacon, the c e o of Brandy Wine Senior Living. And gosh, Brandy Wine was my first client in 2007. I started my business 2005 and it took me two years to get my first client. And not only has it been a fantastic relationship in terms of Brenda opening the doors for me to become what I’ve become, but I got an opportunity to watch the way that she leads and she leads from the heart.
(33:12)
This is the only c e o that I’ve ever seen. She has a community of, I think she has a business of maybe 40 communities across the country and anybody can call her on her cell phone and it makes for a very busy life. But when people work for Brandywine, they’re not just work for Brandywine, they’re working for Brenda. And that’s what, so she’s been my primary mentor and from a business standpoint, I have about 100 mentors who I’ve never met. When I say I have a hundred mentors I’ve never met, I am a voracious reader. And so if an autobiography drops or if somebody puts out a good business book, I will devour that book and I feel like they’re talking to me.
Rob Jolles (33:53):
Right. Well and that’s powerful. And reading folks, listen to it. You can listen to your book on tape, but reading, and I noticed you got a couple books out, is “Bias Racism in the Brain.” Is that a newer book for you?
Jason Greer (34:09):
Yeah, so that came on 2020 or 2022. Okay. And no, I’m so sorry, 2021. My apologies. So this
Rob Jolles (34:17):
Is like your children, you got to learn these things.
Jason Greer (34:20):
Yeah, man, it, it’s crazy because “Bias racism in the brain” was so personal because we myself and my co-author Phil Dixon, we wrote it in response to the George Floyd moment, and I was a victim across burnings when I was 17 years old. So you’re talking 1991 by the kkk the Burnt Crosses in protests in my family moving to Dubuque, Iowa. And we were coming under what was called the Constructive Integration Plan, whereby they were going to bring over 100 black families, but they never told us. So as you can imagine with any type of forced integration, even in the nineties that was met by a large group of people who happened to be 99.9% white. The feeling was that we were going to come in and take their jobs. We were going to go take their livelihoods. And I’ll never forget my father being on Oprah with one of the McDermott brothers, the McDermott brothers were the ones who were really spearheading this anti Greer movement.
(35:17)
And this 19 year old kid looked at my father and said, you’re going to come to Dubuque and you’re going to take my job. Understand. He worked construction. My father was a PhD in educational psychology. My father looked at him and said, I’m no threat to take your job. So this idea that we’re going to come in and try to replace you is ridiculous. So we took the stories that I experienced in my life dealing with racism and other things. We applied it through the lens of the brain because what we’ve discovered is that we don’t necessarily have a race problem in the world. We have a brain problem and our brain is telling us a story about the outside world. And 98% of it is untrue because it’s being filtered through our experiences, through our family, through our socialization. And those have biases attached to them as well. So that’s where Bias racism brand comes from.
Rob Jolles (36:11):
First of all, I’m grateful you shared that story with me and thank you.
Jason Greer (36:15):
Thank you.
Rob Jolles (36:16):
Which you also heard folks, is something I truly believe from great authors is they don’t find a book. The book finds them.
Jason Greer (36:26):
Yes, sir.
Rob Jolles (36:26):
And clearly this book found you and that makes it even more appealing to me to read. And I’m going to read that book and then I’m going to write a review on it. Remember, we don’t just read books, ladies and gentlemen we say thank you by writing review. It means a great deal to the authors. I’m speaking for Jason now, but believe me, he’s naughty. Okay, so we’re going to get that book. Is there an audio version?
Jason Greer (36:54):
Not yet. Not yet. We are actually making that movie next month. We’re making that movie next month.
Rob Jolles (36:58):
In there. Yeah.
Jason Greer (37:00):
Can I say something? You brought up a point about really your books find you.But when the book came out, “Bias Racism in the Brain” is still so personal to me that it feels like I just wrote it yesterday. Wow. Because it’s always there with me. Right. And it’s versus the “People Matter Most” book, which is a cool book. It was my first book, but that was more of, and it was experiential, but it was kind of boring. I will readily admit that. Whereas this has been more personal from my heart.
Rob Jolles (37:33):
Good. All right. But it wasn’t boring. It was. It just, again, I have three kids. They’re all wonderful. Yes. Each one appeals to a different kind of crowd. Yes, sir.
Jason Greer (37:46):
I love it. I’ll go with that.
Rob Jolles (37:48):
I’ll go with that. Oh, we love our kids and the story kids. I’m not talking about any of you right now, I’m just telling you. Anyway, listen, before I get in the hot water I am really glad you were able to come on this show. Thank you. I’ve enjoyed our conversation immensely. And again, I’m grateful you were on and I moved by that story. You told that May, that book just jumped light years in my head because I like hearing how a book is found and how it finds us. And that’s when you carve into a book like that with that kind of story, you’re going to read something from the heart. And so I already know it. I can’t wait to get a hold of it. And that’s why when it becomes an audio book, will you be the one reading it? I will be. I hope so. Because if you weren’t, I was going to twist your arm and say, yeah, you are. <laugh> got to come from, you got to be your voice anyway. How do people get ahold of you? Jason?
Jason Greer (38:46):
You can find me from a website, hiregci.com. You can find me on Twitter @Labor diversity as well as Instagram and definitely LinkedIn Connect with me on LinkedIn.
Rob Jolles (38:56):
Good. Good. I got 10 more questions I didn’t even get to. Going to have to have Jason on again, and I’ve yet to have a repeat guest when I do. You are going to be one of them. Thank you so much for being on the show. Truly.
Jason Greer (39:09):
You were awesome, Rob, you’re awesome. So I appreciate you.
Rob Jolles (39:12):
I appreciate that. Well, we’ll do it again as well as we can next time, everybody. Until then, stay safe.
Outro (39:20):
Thanks so much for listening. If you enjoyed today’s show, please rate and recommend it on iTunes, outcasts, wherever you get your podcast. You can also get more information on this show and rob@jolles.com.